How a Multi-Hyphenate Marketer Runs 5 Jobs on 4-6 Hours of Sleep with Amanda Kwan

I do marketing for a living, and I feed people and gather people as a passion. The sense of community gathering, belonging, togetherness, those are massive drivers for consumers. I’m the organizer of all the things that I do professionally, but also socially. So I’m like the friend that makes all the dinner reservations.

I’m the friend that remembers everyone’s birthday, the one that organizes the birthday party, US hosts and organizers. We all need. A moment of appreciation because so much of like the gathering and like the community building is like off of the invisible labor that we put in. I try to live my life that like if I were to die tomorrow, I’d die happy.

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Jen: How do you typically answer the question? What do you do?

Amanda Kwan: I do marketing for a living and I feed people and gather people as a passion. That really sums it up. ’cause everything I do outside of my day job has a lot of overlap with my extracurriculars.

Amanda Kwan: It is about gathering and feeding, the events company I’m a partner of focus 70% on food and beverage and hospitality and entertainment. So everything we do surrounds the table. So ultimately whatever

Jen: That’s so cool.

Amanda Kwan: my endeavors are, are about bringing people together, typically over food, and then marketing, as you know, professionally too, it’s like, it’s about the science of like understanding people and how they think and, know, what drives

Jen: Yeah,

Amanda Kwan: And I think the sense of community gathering, belonging, togetherness, those are massive drivers for consumers. So I’m always taking that approach professionally with everything I do. That’s what I specialize in, how does the culinary industry bring people inspiration to drive demand to the shelves, to buy the things,

Amanda Kwan: am like a multi hyphenate, like, I have a day job, which is very full on corporate marketing.

Amanda Kwan: I do global marketing for a Hong Kong brand. So I’m always working.

Amanda Kwan: because of the nature of it being global. There’s a lot of time zone juggling. So I often do work with the us UK and then through apac. my office hours are technically like eight 30 to six 30. I have calls sometimes at 3:00 AM sometimes 11:00 PM a sprinkling of like nine PMs or, or whatnot. I also own an events company in Shanghai, which I operate more as like a director of the business versus like the day-to-day operator.

Amanda Kwan: I work with TEDx, which I just like ran from that meeting to get home on time for this. But I work with TEDx in Hong Kong to organize TED Talks and I’m really involved with like the American Chamber of Commerce, here in Hong Kong.

Amanda Kwan: I lead one of the chairs of their Woman of Influence committees, which is the largest committee

Jen: cool.

Amanda Kwan: chamber. So basically working with, amazing women from, all different industries across the chamber to run programming for women in business, it’s called Women of Influence, so, it’s more like industry agnostic, but yeah. Then I operate a private dining concept in Hong Kong called Saver Cinema. Which I have been also doing, I’ve been doing like seven day work weeks, the past and a half, on that we’re prepping at night. So that’s how I can juggle it amongst my day job.

Amanda Kwan: ’cause I, I’m at the office and then I go to the kitchen prep all night till like two or three in the morning. And then we run service the next night we doors open at like seven or 8:00 PM and then we seat 22 people a night. We run that three nights a week. and that’s something that I do, I, I have a business partner

Jen: Wow.

Amanda Kwan: like a creative partner. We operate that, you know, as and when we have capacity, amongst our jobs basically. It’s kind of like whenever I think I can try to like spare some hours of the day. doesn’t leave a lot of time for sleep, but, you know.

Jen: Yeah.

Amanda Kwan: I have a really like packed social calendar of like things and I’m. The organizer of all these, the things that I do professionally, but also socially. I’m like the friend that makes all the dinner reservations. I’m the friend that remembers everyone’s birthday,

Jen: Yeah.

Amanda Kwan: organizes the birthday party. I host like a 60 person Thanksgiving every year. you know, the bird and the fixins and all that stuff.

Amanda Kwan: So the to-do list changes every day and it’s always kind of like chaotic depending on what, what of the many things I just listed is priority. So it’s a big juggling act really of, of time. And urgency

Jen: well, we, we sound very similar. I feel like I’ve never heard that anybody sounds so much like me, honestly. Especially when it comes to like, yeah. Like no matter how crazy the rest of my life is, I’m always , I’m making a full blown Thanksgiving dinner and everybody come, come over.

Jen: Yeah. I’m happy to meet my crazy soulmate.

Amanda Kwan: Us hosts and organizers, this has been my theme of 2025, is like trying to find other people that are doing this because we all need a moment of appreciation because so much of the gathering and the community building is like off of the invisible labor that we put in.

Amanda Kwan: And when it’s not reciprocated appreciated or taken for granted, we’re like, Hey, you know, C come on guys. Like you’re, we’re all busy. Like, this is one. People are like, oh, I’m so busy. It’s like I Yeah, too.

Jen: you wanna see my calendar?

Amanda Kwan: are you saying you’re busier than me

Jen: Is this the pace and the amount of things you want to juggle for the foreseeable future, or do you feel like you are trying to get to some point where then you are more focused on a couple of things or that you’re trying to offload anything?

Amanda Kwan: I think I’m definitely looking to prioritize a few things this year. I definitely , am operating at a time deficit that I don’t normally partly because I’m so busy, but then equally have this craving for more, I’m an extrovert, so like I wanna gather, I wanna like be around people.

Amanda Kwan: I wanna do social things, but like I have to juggle the work stuff. I’m very work hard, play hard, and I’ve always been that way, like had five jobs in college, , I’ve worked in my careers in advertising and I always was working like crazy hours and like the only producer retained on three accounts.

Amanda Kwan: Now that I own my own agency, I’m like, that agency was making like 800% off of my billable hours back then. I was extremely underpaid. 23-year-old in New York City working on three of the biggest accounts of this company. And when I look back I’m like, I need to what? I’m not sure about that. I was like, wow, I would’ve made more if I worked at McDonald’s. if we were looking at the hours.

Jen: Oh my gosh, that’s so sad.

Amanda Kwan: When I first started in New York, the salary’s so small, I was like, okay, maybe I’ll work at Starbucks from like six to 9:00 AM every morning before I go to my advertising job.

Amanda Kwan: And then maybe after work I’ll pick up some shifts and be, because like, you’re, you, you’re rubbing pennies together in Manhattan., It was definitely that paycheck to paycheck life back then. Different now, but to your question about can see myself continuing at this pace. I think, looking into 2026, I’ll probably edit down some things that I feel like the ROI is not really there. especially some of the volunteer things or things that I’m like overextending myself, you

Jen: And I’m guessing you don’t just mean financial ORI. You mean like you mean energy

Amanda Kwan: there’s a couple of things that I’ve like, like side projects and stuff that people wanna collaborate with me on I’m always happy to try to help if I have the capacity for it, but I’ve been so time poor and so energy poor, I keep wanting to say yes, but I definitely shouldn’t be. This year has definitely taught me to be like, you should just said like. Nah like, or, or like, just maybe, but in, maybe next year or something. A number of things that I normally map out for my year, like timings were accelerated or scopes changed I always like to map everything out and have a plan. live in like, Gantt charts and like Excel spreadsheets. I think in Excel. I always love asking people that. What, what do you think? And do you think in PowerPoint, you think in Word? Like, you know, you look thinking in paint. We, we got, we got a Picasso over here. But yeah, that’s, I’m always like, I can tell when someone else thinks in Excel.

Amanda Kwan: I’m like, we’re, yes, we’re getting, we get those systems, you know, we’re thinking about one to, you know, one to 10 A to Z.

Amanda Kwan: How did you start doing this, this podcast and like wanting to do, do all this, the things

Jen: Like this is my brain. Just any, anytime I meet somebody interesting. Or with a job that I’m like, what? That, that I’m always just, after I meet them, turn to my husband, I’m like, what do you think they actually do in a day? Like, what, what is happening at two 15?

Jen: Or like, and how, how is the tiny details that their life breaks down into adding up to this whole day, this whole life, this whole career, this whole person. And, I’m very interested in people with really weird and different jobs. And I’m certainly interested, in like people who are, you know, drastically more successful than me.

Jen: And I’m like, how are, how is the, your 15 minutes at two 15 so different than mine, that it is equaling like this different. Level of success? What, what are the details that that’s breaking down to? So yes, it’s been, I don’t know, five years of me every time I meet anybody, turning to my husband and being like, what are I doing in a day?

Jen: And, and then finally just being like, I think, I think this idea is not, not leaving me alone. If I’m really fascinated by this, I’m gonna guess some other people are too. And I had a podcast before when I first started traveling, and I really love the socially appropriate permission to interrogate someone because that is definitely my, like default mode.

Jen: But yeah, when you have a microphone, people are a lot more accepting, accepting of being interrogated. Do you have a to-do list ready for

Amanda Kwan: Yes.

Amanda Kwan: So basically my to-do list is,

Amanda Kwan: Always in my calendar in terms of like every up to like the 15 minute, increments. Like even if it’s like a five minute call, I put it in the calendar. So my to-do list is always like blocked by or activities, but then also like things I need to get done. So it’s like, in order to do all the things I do I have to be extremely scheduled. And that’s one of the main things that I like, call out to people in. Meeting them. I’m like, yeah, my calendar looks like Tetris, we’re just gonna have to see, see how that goes. I’m just gonna send this to you, just a random Saturday, not even a workday,

Jen: well I’d love to like go through the to-do list that you did send me, because it’s all words that I’m like, I have no idea what this could be other than home, I think. I think I know what that means.

Amanda Kwan: So it was like, the first one was, was reformer, so that was like Pilates, like ignore my fir my, my, obviously

Jen: Oh, nice.

Amanda Kwan: at works on annual leave, but it’s like I have Pilates. I had a facial, then I, a laser appointment. Then I was seeing my friend Natasha for coffee. Then I needed to go home, and then I was seeing my friend Leo for dinner.

Amanda Kwan: Then after dinner with Leo, which is like a cutoff there, I think I might have, met up with friends for drinks or something. So this is like a Saturday. This is just my social light day, slight day. And then if we’re looking at like, let me see another one. There’ll be other times, oh, my Monday nights. Like, even just tonight, Everything ran over today. Even just today from like 6:00 PM on a Monday, I have every Monday night I put in my calendar, not make plans. but alas, I make plans all the time on Monday nights and I had,

Jen: So why, why do you, why do you put that there and why on a Monday?

Amanda Kwan: it’s like after the weekend I should, like, I keep always thinking to myself, like, after Saturday and Sunday, I need to like be at home and like do like laundry and stuff. I feel like my life is a concentrated, doing laundry, honestly, doing laundry like every single day, of various things. like even tonight it was like I wasn’t supposed to necessarily have all of these meetings overlapping.

Amanda Kwan: ’cause like my six o’clock meeting ended up running over. To like 6 45 or like almost seven. And then I was, I was running late to the other meeting and that supposed to end by like seven 30 and then it only ended at eight 15. So then I like ran back home for this call, I did admittedly, obviously overbook myself, but like knowing that that meeting wasn’t gonna actually be like hours or God, two and a half hours that they put in the calendar for that every week. that’s kind of, I guess a reference point. I’ll show you my like September, the month of September. So I color code obviously you can see like how different like color codes for like personal and whatever. so since I color code, when you look at the month. When you look at my month, you can see every day look at the different color, like all the different colors on the days. It can tell you kind of what’s

Jen: Oh wow.

Amanda Kwan: So like if you look at like the ninth, the 16th, 22nd, I should be popping off like, geez, the second. Like, just a lot of things happening. Various things.

Jen: And a lot of things from different categories. Yeah.

Amanda Kwan: some stuff works, some stuff personal.

Jen: do you have any practices like in your day or your week that are more about balance and grounding that are able to support you in doing all of these things?

Amanda Kwan: I guess I like. Exercise., That’s why I do schedule, like going to like Pilates or, and then every Sunday almost every Sunday, like either 10 or 11:00 AM I do the same like workout class with a friend and then we get coffee after and like debrief on our weeks. ’cause it’s like a Sunday morning thing and like Sunday mornings are usually pretty quiet. little things like that, that I try to like build in a rou ritual for in a way. But I would say that my ’cause for work, I have to travel a lot and then I also just travel a lot personally as well. So sometimes routines are definitely hard to like, that kind of same routine with like going to the same, going with the same friend workout is like sometimes hard to maintain. But yeah, I would say working out, like, like sure I make time to do that, is definitely part of it. if I’m honest, like watching random series, like I have all the subscriptions, like, it’s like I got HBO OI got Prime, I got Apple tv, have Netflix. But like watching all the shows and I like ke do keep up with that. It’s often what I do, like before bed or something, you know, like, as like a wind down to my day. Like I’ll watch like random Yeah, random show or, or, or whatnot.

Jen: Do you feel like the way you go about your to-do list and schedule and prioritizing is different at all, like during your workday versus in all of your other, all of your other stuff, the way you think about things or feel things or schedule things.

Amanda Kwan: my workday I do work in a very big corporate hierarchal organization. So during my workday, I’m always having to think about the other stakeholders that I have to interact with and, and schedule around. thinking about the, the kind of motivations and incentives for those stakeholders as well to like, get things done and make progress. My, my number one, I’m a very like, output driven person. I like tangible outcomes. I’m a producer, project manager by trade. And so it’s like, let’s make it happen. So my, my day work days are always driven by that. Like what motivates me to, to make things happen is, is like, okay, let’s get an outcome. So a lot of meetings have to happen. A majority of my day is spent in making proposals, typically in the format of decks and PowerPoints. and then the way that I maybe approach, I still approach everything I do systematically no matter a personal or professional. But with a lot of my other projects, since it’s kind of like the main stakeholder is myself and maybe like people that I choose to include in those experiences, it’s a little bit different. and it’s, it’s almost like even though I, my plate is like piled up. beyond. It still feels like liberating though to have more autonomy with some of those things. And I, and all, everything I do, I still work with collaborators and I, but there are people I chose to work with or also who chose me to work with, which is a little bit different than like an HR department decision, you know? But

Jen: Yeah.

Amanda Kwan: I would say, yeah, especially when, when I’m working on my other side projects and even social things, I’m like looking, thinking about solutions. So how can I like, solve something creatively? how can I meet whatever the need is of the, the, the chosen demographic or person or group I’m hanging out with or whatever, versus at work it’s like outcomes, outcomes, outcomes.

Amanda Kwan: Like, we gotta, let’s like just get it done. And sometimes that we ha that we have to sometimes choose to be this way. But like, it’s like done is better than good sometimes.

Jen: Yeah,

Amanda Kwan: I

Jen: absolutely.

Amanda Kwan: before to Asia, I, that wasn’t a concept I really like held onto. partly because like, I worked, I worked in New York for several years and especially like honestly a lot of people from the east coast, I think you can relate to like get shit done mindset, you know? And so,

Jen: Yeah.

Amanda Kwan: and like do it what we want that way. And so to me, like I’m like in meetings and you’re just trying to always get consensus building, consensus building and I’m like, okay, that sounds like that will get it done. And like I’ll stop trying to offer improvements. I’ll stop making suggestions.

Amanda Kwan: I’ve had colleagues message me at the desk being like, stop asking questions. We want this meeting to be over. And I’m like. asking questions that would help us all do our jobs better, but Okay. Sure. They’re like, yeah, I want to leave. That’s okay. They’re like, the meeting needs to be done. I’m like, okay.

Amanda Kwan: Sure. But like, how I approach other things is definitely like with like, let’s try to make the best solution that’s gonna make, the best experience. And I’m really driven by like experience and like, Yeah. And all the other things like socially and, and with the other you know, endeavors.

Amanda Kwan: I, I take on,

Jen: is what your day looks like now, what you thought it would look like, 10, 8, 5 years ago.

Amanda Kwan: No, but would be just as busy, but filled with different things. would say maybe like 10 years ago, I was definitely on a different track. That was prescribed by society. so I’m not married. I’m like a spinster. Not married, like super single. if any man listens to this, listens to this and is like that busy ass lady.

Amanda Kwan: Sounds interesting. Holler. But, 10 years ago I definitely also thought I would have I thought I would’ve kids by now and things like that, right? So there’s like what life and society, traditional, whatever thoughts we’re there, but I still, always planned to be busy or like to be doing the most I could and be making the most of my time. Like being an active person in society I’ve predominantly been this way ever since. Like college, like I did worked all the time. I had many jobs, internships. I was like, president of all these clubs. I was like, same thing, honestly, same thing even in high school. Then

Jen: Yeah.

Amanda Kwan: New York, like when I was working one main full-time job, I was still like always organizing like these like dinner par, like lavish dinner parties and like hosting my friends and like organizing like experiences.

Amanda Kwan: Like I’d be the person like queuing up in Times Square trying to get those like Broadway show tickets for like six of my friends. doing all those

Jen: Oh yeah.

Amanda Kwan: If it wasn’t three, three concurrent jobs at the mo at the same time, I was still doing a lot of that kind of stuff.

Amanda Kwan: So, yeah, still just like, appreciating life is what is how I see it. Like making the most of my time is me valuing it, me valuing it, you know. Definitely was b be busy. But I honestly, I would say like five years from now, ID wouldn’t, I didn’t think I would be still running this private kitchen or private like dining concept.

Amanda Kwan: ’cause it started in COVID during COVID VI as a very much a, a passion project, something to like, just try to find joy and silver lining in the situation. ’cause in Hong Kong was really like heavily restricted, and di dining was closed. yeah, then it just kept on progressing and people kept, more and more people found out about us and now we’re like, we’ve been written up in like, SEMP and like tatler and stuff.

Amanda Kwan: And it’s still a passion project. it’s not at a point where I’d be like, oh, I’m gonna quit my day job, you know? But it gives me a lot of intrinsic value. And my business partner Allison and I are like, yeah, we’re really well. A matched, we know how to compliment each other very well and work together.

Amanda Kwan: Finding solutions we like, the amount of re we have for each other, I think has been a key to like, making it grow so much. But like five years I definitely wouldn’t have been like, oh, we’ll still be doing it a lot. Of thought, oh, when COVID like is over, then like, that project will also, that chapter might also come to a close, but it’s like, yeah, going strong.

Amanda Kwan: We have like 200 people this month and we have 140 people next month.

Jen: Wow.

Amanda Kwan: So yeah, it’s,

Jen: So is it like private bookings or how, how do people, okay.

Amanda Kwan: and like word of mouth. Mm-hmm.

Jen: Oh wow.

Amanda Kwan: Our, our handles at Saver

Jen: That’s amazing.

Amanda Kwan: wanna check it out. But yeah, it used to be just like friends and family, like, and very much like inner circles ’cause it was something that we were just doing for fun. And then, yeah, over time more and more people have heard about it. Allison and I are both like, really well networked, in the city, so I think that’s also part of it. But yeah, now we have like, like a 400 person waiting list, which is pretty cool.

Amanda Kwan: Like last night there was like 70% new people. One night we had like a hundred percent new people. So it’s very cool to see like. People just discovering like straight up, organically discovering. ’cause we’ve never run like Instagram, like we don’t run like Instagram ads or anything.

Amanda Kwan: ’cause it’s still very much on like the DL and kind of like, you know, someone that knows someone and kind of thing. ‘ cause it is very private and it is, it’s just a private event. We only see 20 people, 22 people a night. it’s still very intimate. It’s in an industrial space in Hong Kong. So, we kinda make it to, we make it our, our own in that way.

Amanda Kwan: Yeah,

Jen: So cool.

Amanda Kwan: I it’s definitely probably something I would say. Like if I were to, forbid, God forbid get hit by a bus. This is that. I do operate under that though. I’m like, guys if I get hit by a bus tomorrow, someone else needs to, I, this is why I over communicate. This is why you take meeting minutes. But I always like say this, like, I think I try to live my life that like, if I were to die tomorrow, I’d die happy. And I would think like if I was hit by a bust. Or something. Hopefully it never happens. That would be something I’d be like, one of the things I’d be most proud of, like doing. ’cause it was like, hopeless times we made it happen and like it still brings so much joy to us and, and, and other people.

Amanda Kwan: I,

Jen: Yeah. And yeah, especially, it brings so much joy to

Amanda Kwan: yeah.

Jen: these other people in the 400 people in the waiting list. That’s

Amanda Kwan: Yeah.

Jen: amazing.

Jen: if you could see the to-do list of any one person, who would it be? And it can be a person’s name or a job title, or however you wanna answer it.

Amanda Kwan: Hmm. I don’t know. My, my initial thought is like Michelle Obama, think, I don’t know if, I don’t know if anyone else has ever said that, but like, I think Michelle Obama would be quite interesting to see. ’cause I think, well she’s just incredible. Like I really deeply admire her. Who else?

Amanda Kwan: Actually, like, I would love to see a to-do list of like, like maybe like an Olympic gymnast or something, because I feel like I’ve met a few Olympians like from the Hong Kong Olympics team and stuff like that through my TED communities. And when I hear about their trainings and like all the stuff they do, but like the training to be an Olympian is one thing, but it’s all that comes with it too.

Amanda Kwan: Like, they have to do press tours. They have to do photo shoots. They have like,

Jen: Yeah.

Amanda Kwan: have to meet like nutritionists like every day. And like, I mean, ’cause their body is their main currency, right? That’s like their money maker. And they’re compet at such a crazy high level. I mean, it must be. I would love, you know, I would love to see an Olympian’s sleep data ’cause that I aspire to. I like 2026. I like downloaded this. A friend of mine is working for this app called sleep Easy. And he was like, Quan, you need, you need this. Like, what, what are you doing? Because he was like, how, how many hours of sleep do you get a night? And I was like, Hmm. Like four to six. like, that is not good.

Jen: Gosh.

Amanda Kwan: not, not always. Right. Like sometimes I’ll like let myself sleep in and like do stuff. I’m

Jen: Okay.

Amanda Kwan: owl.

Jen: the first area where we’re different. ’cause I, I’m, I’m like, if I don’t get seven and a half, I’m, I’m like a zombie. Yeah. Sleeps pretty extremely mandatory for me.

Amanda Kwan: be doing it. I know everything in my life would be better. Mostly, I think would be better with more sleep. And I, I try, but then I just like don’t achieve it. ’cause I just let other things

Jen: Yeah.

Amanda Kwan: you know, come into my purview. But yeah, this is my, like new, that’s one thing where I have to prioritize.

Amanda Kwan: I need to do that. ’cause like, I’m not getting any younger and sleep is like, lack of and poor sleep quality is like the biggest factor in aging. I need more sleep for sure. Like Michelle Obama, like, I guess so she has a team. I should just put in my calendar sleep and then maybe I’d prioritize more.

Jen: I have sleep in my calendar.

Amanda Kwan: I should probably do that.

Jen: I, yeah, yeah, do do it as soon as we get off this call.

Amanda Kwan: Like I think also if I prior

Jen: And make sure it’s a recurring event for every night.

Amanda Kwan: I love a recurrence. cause then I honestly, if I blocked on my calendar more, I would stop telling people I’m free for a call at 11. Like I very, the amount of times I’ve said that statement this year I’m free for a call at 11:00 PM is a lot.

Amanda Kwan: ’cause I’ve had to work on, I’ve been working on so many projects with the West coast and PM is the only time where I can get somebody in Europe and the West coast. And so I’m always the one compromising on Asia time. And it’s funny, my colleagues are like,

Jen: Yeah.

Amanda Kwan: a workaholic.

Amanda Kwan: You just love working. I mean, I like to work, but not necessarily on this,, in New York, I used to do insomnia baking, where i’d finish my workday and then I would just bake something to like wind down. I mean, I still do that. Like the other night

Jen: Yeah.

Amanda Kwan: cooking for 22 people, I got home at 1:00 AM. And I just decided to make soup. I’m gonna go make a soup, that’s what I’m gonna do. I

Jen: Yeah.

Amanda Kwan: went to bed at 3:00 AM ’cause I had obviously make sure the soup was like cooking for long enough and like I could taste seasoning and stuff. And then I kept was like, oh, but I’m making this soup the week or something like, oh, like I just justify it myself.

Amanda Kwan: But I used to do insomnia baking and it was so funny ’cause my colleagues would just like wait at my desk to see what I had made. Especially on Mondays. ’cause at Sunday night I’d have like the Sunday scaries, so I would like bake cookies or something. And then Monday morning, I would have the, the baked goods on my desk and then post-it notes by allergen. ’cause it was New York, right? So I was like, contains nuts, contains gluten is not sugar free. Like I would just leave it on my desk and by the time I’d probably finish my first, like two meetings in the morning. I’d come back to my desk and everything would be gone. But

Jen: Aw,

Amanda Kwan: was a good way to, it was a good way to meet a lot of randos in the office.

Amanda Kwan: They’d be like that, that lady that just like bakes, just like go to her desk on Mondays. It’s great.

Jen: this is very relatable. Yeah. I’ve just just moved into this Balinese compound and well, the amount of stuff I’ve baked in the last three days. But yeah, I’m trying to like be friendly with all the locals by just like giving them little, like pumpkin bread, loaves wrapped in little banana leaves and it’s fall even though it doesn’t feel like it.

Jen: I feel you. I feel you.

Amanda Kwan: Oh my God. Actually, like on the note of pumpkin, I feel like I’ve been seeing so many great pumpkin and sweet potato recipes. I just saw this amazing sweet potato cinnamon roll donut. Oh my God. I was like, I’m saved immediately. to make this with what time? When? I don’t know.

Jen: Nice.

Amanda Kwan: What needs to happen?

Jen: Well, maybe you could just try committing to the sleep thing for like, I don’t know, three weeks or something where it’s just like, okay, it’s a three week experiment. We’ll see how much it potentially takes away from my productivity or gives to my productivity just as an experiment. You don’t have to commit long than three weeks, but I think three weeks is like a good trial time where you can actually see some results.

Jen: And then if you’re like, okay, yeah, no, I’m not feeling any better and it’s making me way less productive. Fuck sleep. But then you can make an educated decision.

Amanda Kwan: maybe I’ll do that in like December. Yeah.

Jen: Yeah,

Amanda Kwan: Like an

Jen: that’s a good holiday time. There’s less, well, nevermind you’re in food, so.

Amanda Kwan: December,

Jen: knows. I

Amanda Kwan: closing the kitchen

Jen: guess it depends on how crazy.

Amanda Kwan: and like all these other gatherings.

Jen: Oh,

Amanda Kwan: the time where I’ll be like the slowest.

Jen: Okay.

Amanda Kwan: job yeah, we’re more focused on like the next festive period. Christmas is not like a big priority. maybe December, the month of rest if I can sustain it.

Jen: Nice.

Amanda Kwan: achievement of 20, 25, 8 hours of sleep.

Jen: make sure to put it on your calendar.

Amanda Kwan: Block that time. This was such a great chat. I hope this was like interesting and

Jen: Yeah. So.

Amanda Kwan: helpful or.

Jen: It was so interesting. Well, also like, yeah, I’m completely freaked out by meeting my, my soul twin. I’ve never met another person in the entire universe who’s more like me than you meeting you on the internet. It’s like, yeah, we, I I, I am going to meet you in person. We are going to become IRL friends.

Jen: It’s happening. So,

Amanda Kwan: You should come visit Hong Kong. been before, right?

Jen: yeah. I have, I, I have not been, but my husband has, and he loves it. Yeah, I know. It’s, I’ve been hanging out so close for so long, but I have never been,

Amanda Kwan: Wow. It’s not that far.

Jen: I know.

Jen: Yeah. Thank you again so much for doing this. It was absolutely amazing chatting to you and getting to know you and learning that you’re my soul twin.

Amanda Kwan: It’s the best. It’s the best

Jen: Keep me, keep me posted on your sleep adventures.

Amanda Kwan: You know, you’ll hear from me first. If I get eight hours,

Jen: I believe in you.

Amanda Kwan: I, I believe I believe in you. Yeah. One can hope. One can hope.

Amanda Kwan: Well, it was great chatting with you, Jen.

Jen: Good luck. Great chatting with you. Thank you again so much for doing this.

Jen: Chat soon. Bye.

I’m Jen Tracy, and you’ve been watching the To-Do Show. If you’re curious about how other people tackle their days and honestly who isn’t, there’s another conversation right here that’ll probably surprise you. Go check it out. And here’s something interesting. There’s actually research showing that people fall into eight distinct patterns when it comes to how they organize their lives.

Productivity and psychology experts like Adam Grant and Gretchen Rubin have been studying this for years. Weils a quiz based on that research and people keep telling us it’s weirdly accurate. It takes about five minutes and you’ll understand why certain systems work for you and why others never stick.

Head to the to do show.com or check the link in the description to take the quiz. And please, please, please hit subscribe and you can check that off your to-do list.