How a Lab Director Uses Energy-Based Productivity to Prevent Burnout with Esther Brown

Esther: I lead a group of scientists and thinkers in the diagnostic space. I’m constantly thinking about how to mitigate risk. My trajectory is in management and it made the most sense for me to get my MBA, but I’m able to use what I’m learning in class and apply that directly to what I’m doing on a day-to-day basis at work, starting a wellness brand, which you know, caters to the working woman. Different teas, candles, care packages, I’m calling them rituals, I guess roles. They require different sides of your brain. It’s really important to be in one mode and give your all and be intentional about that. I love how often you are checking in with yourself.

I base my to-do list on my energy. I really try to listen to my body. Super intentional about ensuring when my body and my mind feel like burnout is upon me, I do something to mitigate that. Could you hit subscribe? It’s been on my to-do list to ask you for weeks. The show? The show. The show. The.

Jen: I’m very excited to interrogate you today. I’ve had so many questions throughout knowing you. I’m really excited to dig into it. So I like to start every interview by asking, how do you normally answer the question? What do you do?

Esther Brown: Ooh, that’s a good question. I mean, I guess I start off with the title, right? So like VP of ops. But I like to say that. I lead a group of scientists and thinkers, I suppose, Yeah, with whatever the common goal is, right? Like we work in the diagnostic space, but I view my role as more than just that, right? Leading people and making sure that their goals and aspirations are met just as much as the organizations is as well. So it’s

Jen: Aw,

Esther Brown: all encompassing, if you will.

Jen: that is such, that is the answer of a true leader. That’s, that’s really beautiful. What does running a lab actually mean in, on a daily or like hour to hour basis? Like, can you give me, I know we’re gonna go through your actual to-do list later, but I would love just like a snapshot of an average day if there is such a thing.

Esther Brown: Yeah, I mean, every day is honestly different. there’s, so there are a multitude of issues that, arise each day. So I guess if I could characterize it, it’s really risk mitigation, I suppose. Whether that be client facing issues or failing things, right? Like trying to figure those things out and make sure that the folks that are doing the work have what they need to be able to do their job. But then also making sure that we have the right inventory and that we’re not running out of things. When I sum it all up, it’s really just like I’m there to foresee the things that could go wrong on a day-to-day basis. And then, make sure that everyone kind of understands how to resolve those issues. And then also foresee them themselves as well. Like, I love when people can like, come to me and say, Hey, this decision that you might have made the other day could affect this and that, right? I’m not in the lab every single day doing the work. So relying on the folks that are in there to surface the issues that do arise on a day-to-day basis is important.

Jen: How much of, any given day is typically split between like, science people, management, admin like outward communications? How, yeah. What’s that split look like?

Esther Brown: Yeah, I think I try to split my. Week up, based on like, I guess the different needs. So for me, like people management happens specifically on Tuesdays. I

Jen: Oh, cool.

Esther Brown: Tuesdays for me to have one-on-one meetings with everybody. My direct reports, I have weekly meetings with them, and then the folks that report to them, I have monthly meetings with them. And so Tuesdays are just dedicated to that. And then similarly, like I have my client facing meetings on Wednesday, for example. And so I would say like every single week I’m doing it all, but it’s split up day to day.

Jen: That is very smart. Does that help? do you ever have difficulty switching modes? Is that intentional? So like you’re in one mode all of the time and you’re not having any cost of switching.

Esther Brown: Yeah, I think it’s something that I’ve learned over time. Like in my previous role things were kind of happening on a day-to-day basis. Like I didn’t split it up that way. And I found myself having a really hard time switching between those modes and like remembering like, okay, this is a one-on-one and I need to make sure that like, you know, I’m not taking whatever meeting I had before that into this meeting. And really able to show up for the person that I’m speaking to. Right, because like, as much as, the organizational needs, need to be met. who’s sitting in front of me like has emergent needs. And so I need to make sure that I’m focused, for that particular conversation. And, all of the, roles or, things that, that you have to pay attention to. They require different sides of your brain. Really important to be able to like, be in one mode and give your all and, and be intentional about that.

Jen: Absolutely, very wise. do you today as a leader, do you still spend any time actually like at the bench doing sciencey stuff?

Esther Brown: I don’t know. which is something that, sometimes I miss, to be quite honest. ’cause that’s where I started, was at the bench.

Jen: Yeah,

Esther Brown: when starting this role, I was really intentional about like, sitting with everybody, at the bench and like learning. And so for me, again, it’s like I know that the decisions that I make have a direct impact on the people that are doing the work on a day-to-day basis. And so, you know, wanting to understand how they, move through the lab or like What was, the pain points that they experienced on a day-to-day basis. And so for the first like three months I stayed pretty much on the bench and not in my office. But now I think, me learning that I’ve like been able to understand, how things operate here and we’ve done a really good job at putting systems in place to make sure that they’re the most efficient. Obviously, the name of the game is continuous improvement and so nothing’s ever, the most optimized but. When I don’t understand things, what’s nice is that I’m, I’m here every day and so I get to go into the lab and kind of see, what’s going on, or try to understand the pain point, so that I can, either make the decision or talk to someone who can make that decision.

Jen: So you started your career at the bench. At what point did you have the idea that you wanted to take that and move that into leadership instead of hands-on

Esther Brown: Yeah, that’s a good question. I guess I kind of just like fell into it. Prior to me working at Nexus, I worked at a company called Harbinger Health. So I had actually to that company because I wanted to do more research stuff. So I was. Working in a clinical lab, and really wanted to, understand the why behind what I was doing. And so thought that research would be, that avenue for me. The company at the time didn’t co didn’t really know what direction I guess they were going into. And then when they decided to. Develop a clinical lab. It, it just made the most sense for me to move over into that department, being that I had that experience before. And so I would say leadership or, or management kind of just fell into my lap. And I kind of had to grow into it. So I don’t know if I ever like, thought that I would,, but I’ve grown to enjoy it.

Jen: At what point in this process did you decide to get your MBA?

Esther Brown: I think maybe like two or three years ago in management, I’ve never taken a business class, but I found myself having to like. Understand how to, budget and understand, what supply chain management was. And so for me, while I was doing those things on a day-to-day basis, I didn’t necessarily have the, technical background or verbiage to, explain or, or really like delve into how to do it, it was kind of learning on the job and so. I felt like my trajectory is is less on the bench and more,, in management. And so it made the most sense for me to, get my MBA.

Jen: Are you enjoying it?

Esther Brown: I am enjoying it. Yes. I love the application of things, which is like part of the reason why, I wanted to become a scientist. And so, now, that’s kind of shifted into, management and business as a whole. being that, again, like I’m leading, a department, right? a clinical lab. it really does help. I’m able to use what I’m learning in class, on a weekly basis and apply that directly to what I’m doing on a day-to-day basis at work.

Jen: That’s so cool. how do you, are you realistically fitting school into an already full life?

Esther Brown: My calendar, I’m

Jen: even like energy wise, I mean, I love on your to-do list, you have, uh, like kind of planned out. but yeah, like sleep energy. Brain capacity, not just the actual time it takes, but at holistically, how are you doing this? It’s.

Esther Brown: Yeah, I feel, I mean, I feel like I carve those things out as like you’ve seen on my to-do list and then also on my calendar as well. Like, I live by my calendar and I, I literally block everything out. honestly, it varies, right? Like I, I’m not always like high energy. Sometimes I have really low energy and I have to pay attention to that. my to-do list ref reflects that, right? Like, on days where I feel like I do have low energy, I know that I won’t, I’m not gonna achieve, all the things that I may set out to. And, just giving yourself grace and being okay with that is something that I’ve had to learn. I have a really great support system. I think my friends and and family understand that I do have a lot going on and so, they also give me grace and encourage me as well. And so think that helps too. cause it’s not just me alone doing it, I have, I have a team where I, I have, that support system. so it’s helpful, but I won’t lie to you and say like, I have the energy all the time. ’cause that’s, that’s not the case.

Jen: Yeah.

Esther Brown: I try my best.

Jen: Well, you’re very impressive. are there any things that you’re doing daily, weekly, whatever to support. That energy imbalance, like something that’s, like self-care oriented.

Esther Brown: Yeah, so before I come to work every day, I try to go to the gym in the morning. so I’m up by like 4:00 AM and.

Jen: Whoa.

Esther Brown: I go swimming. Yeah. Or sometimes I’ll go swimming. Sometimes I’ll just go to the gym. and honestly that’s the energy, like the boost of energy that I need in the morning to like get me through the day. and then on weekends I try to, make time with friends and family as well so that there’s, that balance. It’s when I actually, I went out with some of my friends over. weekend and I said, you know what, I wanna start like dating my friends. So, we made a pact to, go out on dates on a monthly basis. for me that’s all I, would love to, to do that every single weekend. But for me, like. Monthly is, all I have time for considering all the other things that I have to do. Just like trying to find that balance is important. But I’ll also say like, when you enjoy. What you do on a day-to-day basis, it doesn’t really feel like work life balance. Like I truly enjoy, the people that I work with on a day-to-day basis, and then also, what I’m doing. And so, it all is just life to me, right? Like I

Jen: Oh yeah.

Esther Brown: It’s a part of, my journey on becoming whoever I’m supposed to be. And, I’m enjoying the process.

Jen: Oh, that was such a beautiful answer. My goodness. Yeah. All right. It’s time for you to be also add inspirational speaker to your all your jobs.

Esther Brown: It wasn’t necessarily my goal, but, my partner has been pushing me to, one day do a TED Talk, so

Jen: Yeah,

Esther Brown: in my future. I

Jen: I.

Esther Brown: I don’t know.

Jen: I think it definitely is. I saw, again, we’ll go through the actual details of your to-do list, but I just wanna call out that you have upholstery class as one of your things. So in addition to all of this, you’re also taking a regular little class. Can you tell me about that?

Esther Brown: I am. Yeah. So, my mom and I. Had these like really old chairs that, that were my grandmother’s. And we learned from one of my grandmother’s best friends that she always wanted to redo these chairs but never got the opportunity to. And so, they’re kind of like old and, and dingy. And for Christmas, my mom got me, in upholstery class. And so we’re doing that together, which is really cool every Tuesday. I never, I literally was going to just like pay to get them redone. but yeah, when my mom presented that, I was like, yeah, this is cool. It’s something that we’ve wanted to do, and now I get to learn a new skill. It’s very interesting.

Jen: Does that feel like, work or does it feel like a break from your to-do list hanging out with your mom doing something like hands-on or somewhere in between?

Esther Brown: act of like ripping the chair apart and trying to, figure out how to do that feels like work. But, it is a release, right? Like, I’m using a different side of my brain,

Jen: Yeah.

Esther Brown: do when I’m at work. It’s a nice like, kind of relief or reprieve from all the other things. And then, after that, I, I get back to it.

Jen: Nice. That’s so cool. I’m so impressed. Do you ever get sick?

Esther Brown: I do, yeah, I have actually, I haven’t gotten sick since like 2021. I had COVID like five times. And

Jen: Whoa.

Esther Brown: working through all of that as well. so yeah, I haven’t been sick in a really long time. I don’t know what that is attributed to, but like,

Jen: That’s amazing.

Esther Brown: fingers crossed that, I stay healthy.

Jen: Yeah, because I was gonna, I was wondering like, yeah, how do you keep all these plates spinning if you like, need, five days to recover something but you don’t, so that, that’s very handy.

Esther Brown: I mean, I also try to, travel, at least twice a year. And I would love to say that, I don’t take my laptop and I turn it all off. But I don’t, but I do set boundaries, so like I will respond to emails and things, but it’s not constantly open, which is nice. Just trying to ensure that I do have the energy to do all the things that, I set out to, to accomplish, is super, super important. And it’s not, it’s something I’ve had to learn, right? Like, it’s not something that. I’ve always done, but I have experienced burnout before. Once you are in it, it’s kind of hard to, to get it back. I think over the last maybe two years, I’ve been super intentional about ensuring that when my body and my mind feel like. Burnout is upon me that, I do something to mitigate that, right? And again, it’s the risk of it all. Right? And so even in my life, I’m constantly thinking about, how to mitigate risk, whether that, be burnout or whatever. I just think about it that way.

Jen: That’s really cool. Do you have any tips? for other people, if you feel that coming on, what, what type of things do you do?

Esther Brown: I think it will be different for, for everybody. But, seeing family typically is the thing that, that does it for me. That recharges me, a lot. I just encourage people to find. The thing that they feel that recharges them and, and do that, if they feel like they’re getting tired or they don’t, they find themselves not having, the energy to do, the things that they’re setting out to accomplish, with like full force, right? Because I think we as humans want to be. At a hundred percent. But you have to fill your cup in order to do that. And so, whatever you can find that will do that, you should prioritize that as well.

Jen: Very well said. You just mentioned that you like to travel twice a year. Do you do kind of more of like a lay on the beach and relax or are you traveling like tourism, experiencing new stuff? What’s the objective?

Esther Brown: Yeah, so I try to do like one, I just sit on the beach and I’m a beach bum for a week. And then also like immersion. So. Last year I took my mom to Portugal.

Jen: Nice.

Esther Brown: we, like, we started in the southern, most coast of the southern coast of Portugal. And then made our way up to, to Lisbon and then went to Porto and really tried to like, visit all of the cities that we could, which was really fun. And then typically it’s like we go to some island and we’re. Sitting on the beach, drinking, margaritas or whatever, and that’s what we do.

Jen: Nice. That’s awesome. Good distribution. Very cool. Okay.

Esther Brown: got, it’s, it’s the balance, right? You gotta, you gotta balance it out.

Jen: Yeah, I, well, I’m very, I’m very impressed and inspired by your commitment to balance. Okay. I’m gonna pull up your, your actual to-do list. We’ll start with the week long thing. so you always have running both a week long to-do list and a daily to-do list, and a calendar.

Esther Brown: And a calendar. Yes. And some of the things that are on are also on the, on both to-do lists are on the calendar as well.

Jen: That makes sense.

Esther Brown: Yeah. And, and I’ll write things down as well just to like remind myself as well. Uh, so

Jen: oh, what type, what type of things end up getting writing written down?

Esther Brown: in the calendar.

Jen: No. Or whatever you just meant.

Esther Brown: yeah,

Jen: did you mean like you hand write things to for extra reminder?

Esther Brown: school things,

Jen: Okay.

Esther Brown: end up there and it’s just to like reinforce my brain.

Jen: Nice, smart. okay, I love that you start weekly work outcomes. What must be true by Friday? Do you put that on your weekly list every week?

Esther Brown: I do. That’s, so

Jen: Uh.

Esther Brown: that’s a template, that sits in what I call my operating system. on Sundays before the week starts, I will, put on some, I love jazz music. I listen to it in my office as well, but I’ll put that on. Um, and I’ll just think through, the things that I feel like. I need to accomplish in that week in order for me to feel like it’s a successful week. and so again, sometimes all the things get done and sometimes things are pushed off, to the next week as well. But, I try as, the hardest I can to, to make that happen.

Jen: So that we’re blur looking at a to-do list from a couple weeks ago, you have the. First thing on weekly work outcomes is strategy session flow outlined. Can you tell me a bit about that? I know the inside scoop, but for the listeners.

Esther Brown: Yeah. So, 2026 and, we are trying to figure out where we’re going as an organization. and so the first kind of. was to figure out exactly how we were gonna talk about where we as a company wanted to go. And so, um, wanted to think through. What would get us to our answer at the end of it all. and so was just strategizing, what made the most sense. Do we talk about, market intelligence first? Do we talk about our actual internal capabilities first? and so wanted to ensure that we at least had a framework, before, we started to, to delve. And I started to delegate. things to, to folks.

Jen: Nice. Next. Then you have Endos price scoping Complete. What’s that?

Esther Brown: So we have a couple different, kind of research, different opportunities , that, have come to us over the last kind of few months. and so we’ve had conversations with these clients and based on those conversations, wanting to start. Scoping, what that would mean for the r and d team internally. and then also what that means from a pricing perspective as well. And so, was able to complete that. I don’t even remember this to-do list, to be quite honest with you. So, yeah. you for jogging my memory.

Jen: You got it. when you have, a new person reach out for scoping, they’re obviously not giving us any money during that scoping process. So how do you balance like. giving it your all so that they want to go with us or if it’s possible, versus being like, well, we’re not getting any money from this, so I can’t spend all of my time making it perfect.

Esther Brown: Yeah, I think it goes back to risk mitigation. I mean, part of, part of what, I am tasked to do is like foresee kind of the future, if you will. And so, I think I see it as just my role in general. What, that scoping enables us to do is see if it’s, even, if it even makes sense. Right. I try to take the burden from like the r and d team who may have more pressing things, and do that work myself, but, it is a balance. However, again, think. In the long run, doing that work upfront is going to, not stress the system, when it’s time to make the decision. And so, I see it as, a necessity if you will.

Jen: Nice. Good insight. All right. Next step on the list. You have lab configuration, start moving, and then sub tabs. B, s, C. Movers are booked, service contract is signed and scheduled. I don’t have any idea what this is. What, yeah, what is.

Esther Brown: Yeah, so part of, continuous improvement in the lab, is making sure that. our workflows are streamlined. one of the things that I, recognized pretty quickly when I started at Nexus was that. People were taking a lot of steps to like, do their work. So whether that be, I’m at the bench and I’m adding samples to my plate and then I need to go across the room to go put this plate onto an instrument for me that’s not efficient. Like you should have your instrument next to you so that once you’re done pipetting, you’re able to put that plate onto the instrument. And so. have taken the time to understand the workflow and have talked to people, in the lab to understand that. a couple weeks ago, what I did basically was I took the blueprint of the lab. I went to Staples and I blew it up really big, and I made cutouts of all of our. Instruments that are in the lab and put them on magnets and put them on the board and had the lab stand in front of the board and talk through what would be, the best workflow based on all of the assays that we’re running. We did that a couple weeks ago, we have been talking about, what makes the most sense and the things that need to happen in order to achieve that. some of those things like removing the, the biosafety cabinet was, something we needed to do in order to get more space in the lab. reached out to, to movers and contractors to, figure those things out. Are now complete. The lab has, has officially moved as of yesterday. we have a completely new configuration of the lab, which, it is much better and it will save people time, and stress. And then also, mitigate things like plates dropping and,

Jen: Yeah.

Esther Brown: stuff happening. So,

Jen: Wow. That’s so cool. I love the way that you took that from like idea to a shared dreamscape where everybody could contribute and see it. That’s very clever.

Esther Brown: Yeah,

Jen: Um.

Esther Brown: I, I lent one of my coworkers back when I was at Harbinger did the same thing. And it’s something that, I took with me. I thought it was clever back then. And, everyone doesn’t necessarily have like spatial awareness, but

Jen: Mm-hmm.

Esther Brown: You’re able to, get folks involved in it all. it’s helpful, right? Like I do believe in ownership, of a space and we all own it, right? And so taking part in that, to me is really important.

Jen: That’s awesome. So clever. Okay, next up on your weekly to-do list, you have bucket planning with several categories. First up, you have career development with executive coach and first session. You need to reschedule So you’re doing executive coaching on top of everything else.

Esther Brown: I am. Yeah. Yeah. And

Jen: Whoa.

Esther Brown: of, part of this, to do kind of structure, is in part, I’m thankful to my executive coach as well, who’s been really, really helpful. I’ve always been someone that’s, very introspective. I strive to, do my best. but I, know that I don’t know it all, and, can learn from people who have experience. And so, and doing that, decided to, engage a coach as well. So I do that on Wednesdays.

Jen: Nice. Wow, that’s so cool. next up you have the school and learning bucket with the accounting class and leading Responsibly class, just like your homework. I guess my main question here is just Yeah. how have these things as you learn them, you mentioned like then you’re bringing ’em to work and immediately applying them. I guess I’m really particularly curious about the leading responsibly class. Like have there been any, revelations from that? Or is it all kind of like Yeah, yeah, of course.

Esther Brown: I think I’m learning like theory on like, you know, different philosophers kind of idea of what leadership is. for me, just like getting in, I, I think I’m learning a lot from the people in class, so. I love to hear how other people, handle certain situations. cause again, like it gives you insight on how to, show up for the multitude of, of people and personalities that you deal with on a day-to-day basis. and so, yeah, for me, sometimes I bring. Different scenarios into class and just, ask others like, how would you handle this situation if you were in my shoes? And vice versa as well. What’s really nice is that, know, each week we have like a discussion post that we have to. Video record one, which was new for me, but then two, just to engage and it’s really about, talking to each other and trying to problem solve together, which I really appreciate. some of the readings. make sense. some of the things I agree with, some of the things I, I don’t, but I think that’s the beauty of, learning is that you get to take and then also, impart as well in those situations.

Jen: Well said, your next bucket is money slash real estate slash business. Under real estate, you have house viewing on Wednesdays. Slash Saturday End Inspection. What’s going on there?

Esther Brown: Yeah, I am. Looking for some, some property, to, to add to a portfolio. And so,

Jen: Whoa.

Esther Brown: been adamant about, that. on top of, work and school and stuff like that, I also want to, have my own business someday and, be an owner of something. And so, have been, kind of forging down that path as well.

Jen: Oh wow. That’s so cool. Your next thing is business meeting with gm HB for logo. Well, what’s that?

Esther Brown: Yeah, so I am embarking on some, like, entrepreneurial things as well. I’ve been looking at potentially starting like a wellness brand, which, caters to the working, woman. really about self-care and how to, how to turn it off, right? Like, I don’t think that I have all of the answers, but I have some, insight into what I do. And so trying to think through, how to, share that with other people.

Jen: And do you already have an idea of that? Of like, is this a, a physical good product? Is it like a learning course or,

Esther Brown: it would be a physical product. So I love tea. Tea is like my thing. it relaxes me. I drink chaon milk tea every day. And people in the office are like, how do you not get tired? I was like, I, it is just calming. Like it, it

Jen: yeah, I.

Esther Brown: think, I’ve been like reading about different teas and kind of what they do, and so it’s kind of a holistic type of, brand. it’s candles. I love candles, I love tea, and food. And so, it would be kind of these care packages or, or boxes that, I’m calling them like rituals that people would. subscribe to, and, each month they would get, a combination of some type of tea, some like treat, and then, some exercises to, accompany that. So it’s not completely through yet, but that is the, the gist.

Jen: That’s awesome. I love that so much. Well, if you ever wanna have a separate meeting and chat about that, everything you just said is much more of like my actual background. I mean, for my whole career before this was, D two C marketing for specialty food brands, uh, and stuff like that. So I can definitely, happy to share all of my wisdom and, and that sounds like a fantastic idea. So.

Esther Brown: I feel like I have been saying that I need to pick your brain more. I feel like you are a, a guru in the marketing space and so, need to learn more. Would love to learn more

Jen: you have money, a pay credit card. That one’s pretty self-explanatory. Then your next bucket is life slash health slash family. Under here you have your upholstery class, a dentist appointment, an altar monitor, Maya’s birthday, Saturday night and family meeting Sunday. I guess any, anything you wanna speak to on that big list. We already talked about upholstery.

Esther Brown: Yeah, no, it’s just like life, outside of all of the, things. and just making sure again, that it shows up on my weekly to-do list. Like I want to make sure that. I’m taking the time to prioritize, the people, that mean the most to me as well. I know that I can be incredible. Well, I am incredibly busy and so, I wanna still be able to show up for the people, that are in my life as well, just as much as I show up for the people at work. it’s always on there. sometimes there’s nothing on it, to be honest. it’s just a reminder that those things are, just as important as all the other things.

Jen: Nice. Well said. Okay. Then your final bucket is meetings that require Prep. You have mom’s telehealth appointments, prep needed, prepare questions for the surgeon.

Esther Brown: Yeah. Yeah. So this is like my time to go to my calendar and say, okay, what are all the meetings that I have this week and what. prep. again, this weekly to do happens every single Sunday. and I’ll just go to my calendar and look at all the meetings that I have and ensure that I have, my notes, my talking points That I need. And, so I use OneNote as a tool, and that’s where all of my to-do lists go. and then like sub, I guess sections, I have like my meetings and so that’s where I write all my notes. and my talking points for, for prep, I have a section for clients where I have all my client meetings that’s like separate. I have my people meetings. That’s where I have all my one-on-one notes with all of my, folks. I just go to my calendar and go down the list and say, this is what I need to, to some, things obviously like, I don’t need to prep for, but there are a lot that I do and so I just wanna make sure that I have, what I’m gonna say or, what I can anticipate there.

Jen: Nice. and then separate from your buckets, you have notes to yourself. I really love this and I wanna steal it. time intentions, non-negotiable blocks, deep work blocks. Wednesday and Friday are the most free days. Make sure we protect our time to do deep thinking.

Esther Brown: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, part of my job or a lot of my job is to think and so. when you are deep in the tasks, it’s really hard to like be intentional about, thinking, which I think is harder than completing tasks. and so again, I go to my calendar and I say, this is, these are the days that I know I’m gonna have time to. think, and I, I block them off. and, my door to my office is typically open, but during those times, I do close my door and make sure that, I am protecting my time. And I tell my folks to do the same thing. Like, they also need to think. And so, I really try to practice, what I preach as well and make sure that, they are allowed and able to do the same thing.

Jen: What does your deep thinking time look like? What are you actually. Do you have your computer open? Are you just sitting there with your thoughts, taking notes or?

Esther Brown: Yeah, it’s a combination. So I, sometimes I’ll have my computer open and I’ll, I’ll be reading something right, and writing notes on whatever it is that. I’m reading and then other times like I’m taking a walk. maybe not now ’cause it’s very cold outside, and snowy. But, in the springtime, we have like a nice pond that’s down the street and so sometimes I’ll walk to that and, walk for a little bit. in the spring I like doing one-on-ones and we, do a couple laps around the building as well. But, change of scenery is important. I try to listen to my body and see, what it is that I need in that moment, and do that.

Jen: I love that. I love how often you’re checking in with yourself. next you have, do not do list parentheses protect energy. You don’t actually have anything on that this week, but I love that you have that as a recurring thing. I.

Esther Brown: Yeah. Yeah. So this goes into like my top three. week to week, sometimes things. you’ll have action items from a meeting or whatever. but if they don’t align with my top three, even though I know that, they need to get done, it’s a note to myself to not do it. ’cause they’re written down somewhere and like, I will try to review, notes and things for meetings. but it is a reminder to, what you set out to do and kind of not, not deviate. And obviously, sometimes you can stick to that and sometimes you can’t. But, I try. Yeah.

Jen: Nice. And you also have open loops as a category. So good catchall.

Esther Brown: Uses things that I need to, follow up with. And as you’ll see on, my daily to-do list, I have like an admin block where I am, that’s dedicated to looking at emails and responding to emails. which is also on my calendar. And so, those things often, get resolved in the, the open loops section.

Jen: Okay. Yeah. So the, on the daily to-do list, you start off with energy and you have low, medium, high. Is this Yeah. What’s, what is this?

Esther Brown: This is just me, taking a moment to like, be aware of where I’m at in that moment, and kind of, what the day could potentially look like based on my energy. I base my top three, based on my energy. and so if I know that, I’m really high energy, potentially some of the, like, really deep thinking will happen that day, because I know I have the capacity to do that plus some of the tasks that I have to finish. And so, again, I, I really try to listen to. my body and, and figure out like what I do have the capacity for. ’cause I, I don’t want to burn out. I’ve been there before. and so to me that’s just really important.

Jen: Love that. Are you making your daily to-do list in the morning?

Esther Brown: I am. Yes. So, on my calendar I have, a hour and a half block that is called My Daily Command Center. and that’s while I’m making this list. So, some form of music is, is playing and, I’m thinking about, what was on my list yesterday? Did I complete everything? There are. things I, I may need to follow up, with, from the previous day. And so, I’m looking at the previous day’s to-do list, the open loops from that and then, structuring my today.

Jen: Okay. Then you, you have your top three, which you keep mentioning. and then in parentheses, if these are done, today is a win. I really love these little notes to self throughout the to-do list. It’s so sweet.

Esther Brown: Yeah,

Jen: Um.

Esther Brown: that’s true. So, I strive to, feel, accomplished and kind of compartmentalize. That into, three kind of overarching tasks. And, it’s actually something that I have been incorporating into my one-on-ones with folks as well. ’cause some of the feedback that I received is like, in startup environment everything seems to be a priority and that is true. however, we can only do what we can do and what we have the capacity to do. And so, I’ve started asking people like, what are the top three things that you can, responsibly complete today, or this week? And like, stick to that.

Jen: Um, on this particular day you have bomb audit and pre-read interactive scoping. Can you tell me a little bit about those?

Esther Brown: Is BOM, so bill of materials. we, there’s been a concerted effort to. drive cost down for us. just building the muscle, within the team to think about those things. have, ask folks internally to, to think about. How we can, whether it’s multiplexing, an assay, to ensure that, the real estate on, on a 96 wheel play or a 3 84 wheel play is used the most efficiently. and so the team was able to, to think through some of that. And so, part of my task was just to, review it and, and see. if any other changes, needed to be made. that was that there. And then what did you say the other thing was?

Jen: Free read, interactive scoping.

Esther Brown: Ah, yes. So, after I finally, what the actual strategy kind of, framework would be. There was, the pre-read that our r and d team, was going to send out, and so had to then think about a framework for that so that they felt empowered to, Go out and research and do those things. So, was thinking about, yeah, that next kind of phase of, strategy and what that looked like.

Jen: Nice. then on those same topics, you have well, deep work focus, and again, another note to yourself, what requires thinking. Not reacting. Really love these. And on there you have the BOM audit and pre-read interactive scoping, and you have your time blocks for them. Then you have your admin window for emails, approvals, and quick replies. this is such a good way to structure a to-do list. I really love it. get a quote from the movers, double check against another quote. broder follow ups, waiting for a reply.

Esther Brown: Yeah, so Broda is just our, our building management. So some things that we had to follow up with them about. But yeah, I try to do like, I guess like low hanging fruit first. and get those things out of the way that are like quick replies, what, what have you, and then some of the things that I may have to think through a little bit more just, wanna, kind of, structure it that way.

Jen: And then your final thing is parking lot capture do not act. Uh, so what.

Esther Brown: it’s just like the intentionality of making sure that I’m protecting. My time and, and other people’s time as well. And so as things come up throughout the day, because they always do, I wanna make sure that I’m not reacting, to those things and I’m, being intentional and can give thought to them. cause again, like I know that. what I do or what decisions I make, don’t just impact me. They impact, a whole team of people. And so I wanna make sure that I’m being intentional about that.

Jen: Nice. And then finally you have end of day close. and these are not filled out, but you have biggest win and what role. To tomorrow. So are you at the end of your workday? You’re going back to your to-do list always and like taking these notes for yourself.

Esther Brown: I am, yeah, I try to reflect on the day at the end of the day. So I do like in the morning reflection at the end of the day reflection, just so that, yeah, I can keep myself accountable as well. and then, yeah, it’s like a note to myself, you know? and then at the end of the year, I try to like summarize, how, month to month, how those things went. And, you do your, like, end of year review and so, just try to like, look back at all of that. And, you know, really, I think, um, it’s always hard to. Remember all the things that you do in a year, right? And so I just, I use it as a way to enumerate all of those things. Um, ’cause you know, it’s very easy to forget.

Jen: And does that help you? Does that help you like feel good about the year that has passed and plan for the next year? Or like what’s the goal?

Esther Brown: Yeah, I think in, I use it like for in the moment, it helps me, feel good about what I was able to accomplish, what the team was able to, accomplish. And then, I’m also able to. use it as, just a reminder, or, learning, if you will, I was able to, to show up here, and maybe I could think about this in a different way and, be able to, possibly show up differently or better. And so, just use it as a tool to, continue to, get better and more efficient.

Jen: Honestly, after this interview, I think your TED Talk needs to. Be about to-do lists like this is, it’s so inspiring and like there’s so much, I love all of the intentionality and the reflection and like how much humanity you’re bringing to it. It’s really like beautiful.

Esther Brown: Oh, thank you. Thank you. Yeah. I mean, I wasn’t always this way, right? I think like We learn by, experience and the things that, we encounter, how we show up, day to day. And so, like I said, I’ve experienced burnout. I don’t want, to experience that again. And I also don’t want other people to experience that either. And so I try to think through ways, to. mitigate that. I keep using that word, but, that’s, my word.

Jen: Great. Final question. If you could see anybody’s to-do list, whether that be a specific person or a job title, whose to-do list would you most like to see?

Esther Brown: Ooh, that’s a great question. I feel like I’d wanna see Oprah’s to-do list.

Jen: It’s a great answer.

Esther Brown: I feel like, she is a multi, I mean, we’re all multi-dimensional beings, right? But, She is incredibly intriguing to me and so would love to understand, especially like in her prime, like what, and not to say that she’s not, but

Jen: know what you mean.

Esther Brown: yeah. but to understand how she balances it all, and is able to like still stay sane. cause yeah, it can be, it can be a challenge.

Jen: Yeah. I feel like she, her to-do list might echo some sentiments of yours. I would imagine that she would definitely be bringing like humanity and emotion into her day to day. Yeah.

Esther Brown: sure. Um,

Jen: to get Oprah on and find out.

Esther Brown: thanks. Yeah, I would love to see that.

Jen: Do you have anything else that you would like to share or talk about?

Esther Brown: no. I guess just like, encourage people to, find the thing that, allows them to, to recharge and, yeah, do what makes you happy.

Jen: Nice. Very well said. You’re so well spoken. This has been a very, inspiring interview.

Esther Brown: Yeah, no, I was just gonna say, I appreciate it, being on this podcast. Yeah. When I saw the name of the podcast, I was like, that’s such a, like an interesting way to interact with people. and I never really thought, to think about like how. I just do what I do, right? Like, but I’ve never really like put thought into it, I guess. Well, I guess I do put, put thought into it, but, yeah, I don’t think about it from just like talking about it with other people. I kind of just like am in the thick of it. So, I definitely appreciate it, this conversation.

Jen: I’m so curious, like, for all these people from different walks of life, different levels of their careers, managing different things, like how are you doing it and what does your. A day actually look like. I, yeah. thank you for sharing yours and yeah, it’s been wonderful to chat with you. well, good luck with the rest of your studying. Have a great night. Thank you. Bye.

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