How a Calligrapher Beat Creative Business Burnout with Vicky Daws

Jen: I’m thrilled to talk with you. I’ve been staring at your Instagram for the last like hour, getting inspired and excited.

Vicky: Thank you. That’s really kind. A really good excuse to set it all up because I’m actually teaching a class this evening.

Jen: What’s the class you’re teaching?

Vicky: Signage. So it’s a five week course on everything that you could possibly need to know about making signage.

Jen: That’s awesome. How often do you teach courses and are they always online?

Vicky: I teach in person beginners classes. There’s two different types of calligraphy. There’s pointed nib and there’s brush calligraphy. So I teach those in person and then kind of once you’ve had a go at that and want to develop on from there, then I do online courses for weddings and for signage as well. So I probably teach signage twice a year. It’s great. I love teaching actually. It’s wonderful.

Jen: That’s so cool. When did you start teaching or how long into your career of you doing this did you start teaching?

Vicky: Not that long actually, a year into having it as a business. So I had practiced for like three years by that point, because I was doing it for fun for two years and then that’s when I had the brainwave to launch the business.

Jen: How do you normally answer the question, what do you do?

Vicky: I think it’s hilarious the reaction that I get whenever anyone asks me what I do. So I say, hi, I’m Vicki, I’m a calligrapher. And they respond by this. And I’m like, yeah, or they kind of, they don’t even know what a calligrapher is. Lots of people don’t actually know what calligraphy is, and that’s fine. But they’re…

Jen: Have they never been to a wedding?

Vicky: I know, right? I don’t actually know where you are based, Jen.

Jen: I’m a nomad. I’m currently in Bali. But I am, I’m from Philadelphia and I’m married to an Englishman, so was in England for six months last year and we’re heading back to England in March, but we’ve been in Bali for about four months.

Vicky: Goodness. Amazing. Well, I’ve got family in Philadelphia as well. I need…

Jen: Oh, away.

Vicky: I’ve never been. I went to America when I was 18. I’m 41 now, so it’s long overdue.

Jen: Absolutely. Oh, well Philadelphia is such an amazing city for artists.

Vicky: It’s on my list. But yeah, I think that over in America there’s a lot of call for calligraphy at weddings, and I think we’re always slightly on the back foot, sorry, English people, but I guess we’re slightly on the back foot. But there are a huge number of calligraphers in the UK. But I guess that it’s quite a niche market. And so it’s kind of trying to bring that to the every day is tricky. I think it’s kind of, you’re getting married, you need a calligrapher in America. Whereas here it’s like, oh, you’re getting married. What stationary do I need? Like, so yeah, we’re not quite there yet. I don’t think.

Jen: Interesting. Well, I can definitely say that there are fantastic hand lettering signs in pubs and coffee shops and stuff like that all around England. I’d say like America, England, and Australia care about hand lettering and the rest of the world, not at all, having been a traveler. I was never a calligrapher, but I did mural art and signage. I worked for Whole Foods Market and did all of their signage and stuff. So kind of like the much more corporate side of it and bigger letter, which is very different. I was never, calligraphy is such a, you get one chance to do that stroke. Whereas with large format murals, it’s basically like you are making yourself a giant coloring book. It’s like an O is like that big and then it’s just coloring, coloring that in. Calligraphy is like, woo, that’s a whole other level. But just to say that I always really notice and appreciate hand lettering anywhere I ever see it.

Vicky: I constantly, if I go anywhere new, and my husband’s like, oh my goodness, what are you doing now? I’m like, oh, I just need to take a picture of that sign. It’s so beautiful. Or…

Jen: And you’re like, oh, I wonder if this was one of my students.

Vicky: Absolutely. And actually I have a number of students who have gone on, I love it to see my students like doing really well for themselves. It’s wonderful. I love the community that it creates, which is really lovely.

Jen: Yes. I have noticed that people who are attracted to this general type of artistry are like overwhelmingly such kind people. I’ve never met like a bitchy person into calligraphy or letter, you know? But yeah, it just attracts really great humans.

Vicky: A hundred percent. A hundred percent. I’ve not come across anything like that, which is really, really nice.

Jen: You work for different worlds. You have weddings, you have luxury brand events, and then you’re also, I see from your to-do list, making your own designs for platforms like Tea Public and Thoughtful. How does the process differ in terms of like inspiration, admin, and stress across those different, even if you’re doing a similar design?

Vicky: So tricky. It’s hilarious because if ever I go and I see a friend and they’re like, oh my goodness, the piece you did the other day, you should totally make that into a print. And I’m like, yeah. Oh, but there’s this. Oh, but there’s that. And yeah, as you’ll know, when you have your own business, there’s lots of different hats that you have to wear, but I feel like recently it’s become really apparent to me that there are, that whilst calligraphy I feel is so niche, are actually hugely different things that I do within the job. And trying to separate them out, but also explain to everybody that it’s all available to them is, well, a headache. Trying to get my message across for people who are specifically looking for this kind of thing or not, and just happened to be like, oh, well, we’ve not considered that before. And then also kind of saying, well, hey, if you hadn’t thought about that, have you thought about this? You’d think that just this would be simple, but it’s not.

Jen: When your calendar gets really full, is there one of those types of work that you’re quickest to protect or let go of?

Vicky: Well, let go of, the creativity just goes out the window. I have to say that I haven’t really ever given myself sort of a few days off to just be creative until this week. I made a conscious…

Jen: So you hurt your back, right.

Vicky: Oh my goodness. Yesterday I could not believe the pain I was in. I was like, I feel like I’m 81, not 41. It was actually horrendous yesterday. But I had already kind of earmarked this week in my mind, in my diary as well, to be creative. So the creativity part takes the back foot, unfortunately. As you’ve seen from my to-do list, I’ve got huge number of designs that I’m just trying to put out there to see if there’s a different, even another market for it. But yeah, that’s what I’m trying to do now. Get some designs that I’ve done in the past out there for people to purchase. So on a t-shirt, on a little bag, we’ll see.

Jen: Yeah, that’s a great idea. I mean, artists getting any type of passive income stream, that’s the goal. That’s the dream. It’s a great idea.

Vicky: Passive income is actually priority of mine this year because it takes a huge amount to set it up. But hopefully that one thing will happen and then I can stop kind of thinking, where’s the next project coming in? I’m so, I feel so grateful that I went full time. Well it’s come, this year it’ll be five years in the summer, it’ll be five years. I went full time. I’m so lucky to always be really busy, which is really nice doing lots of different things, which actually keeps it so exciting for me. But yeah, it would be nice to kind of go, okay, we don’t have to say yes to everything.

Jen: I saw on your website you do like in person personalization type events. How does doing signage from the comfort of your own home or wherever versus in person differ in terms of like stress and everything, having somebody watch you?

Vicky: Actually, because I’ve done it quite a lot now, it’s less daunting. Up until four years ago, I was a hotel manager. Very random. And I’ve been in hospitality like all of my life, so me and people, I love it. And I thought that I would actually struggle at home being on my own all day, but actually I love that as well. I love the quiet. If I need quiet, I can have quiet. It’s great. But then put me in amongst people and I’m like, yes, this is lighting me up. So I personally love being part of an onsite event. People are like, oh, I won’t watch you. I don’t wanna put you off. I’m like, no, that’s the point. Come and have a look. Come and enjoy. Maybe it’ll inspire you to pick up a pen or whatever. I love that. But yes, it is stressful if people are talking to you and you’re engraving a perfume or they’re walking past you and you’re like… In December when I found out that the perfume I was engraving was 360 pounds a bottle. And I was like, okay, we probably just need to breathe a little bit before we do the next.

Jen: Oh gosh.

Vicky: So, you know, the pressure actually is insane. Sometimes it is like, oh my God, if I mess this up, like it’s not good. But luckily there aren’t, you know, that many jobs where the item that I’m personalizing is expensive and, like, it’s fine. I’ve just gotta, I have to put that out of the back of my mind and just think, just engraving a wine glass that we just bought from the really cheap shop. It’s fine. Nothing, nothing to see here.

Jen: Gosh, that sounds intense. Okay, so you were a hotel manager and did I read on your website that you also did wedding coordination?

Vicky: Before that I was events manager. I used to run weddings. I went from kind of corporate events into, I got a call to say, do you want to be our wedding coordinator? And I was like, I’m gonna be J-Lo. And it’s not like that when you work in a venue. It’s not like J-Lo. And I loved, I did love it, but then I got offered a different job and worked sort of for a venue where we did mostly weddings, but also events as well. So I got to do like corporate meetings and stuff. And I loved that job. I loved it. But it was just the hours were crazy, crazy, crazy hours back then. And then the opportunity came up for managing a small hotel where they hardly did any weddings. And that was the difficulty for me with the previous one. I love a wedding so much and I really put my heart and soul into a wedding and I really want to make that couple’s dream day, you know? But actually the stress of that is that you’ve gotta be there when they arrive to when they leave. And I never wanted to leave because I was like, they’re having so much fun. I wanna make sure that that continues right until the end and then, whoa, burnout. So I think it’s a young person’s job. So I went into the hotel where there weren’t any weddings and I just thought, okay, well maybe I can just have a bit of a break from that. And then here we are. I’m back in the wedding world and I absolutely love it, but I am on my own, well, nearly on my own terms. Because stationary, you don’t actually have to be there on the day of the wedding, so…

Jen: Yeah.

Vicky: You get to do all that lovely things, but sometimes not with the hours. Although talk to me in summer and it’ll be a different story. Summer, I’m like up all night and I’ll write name cards.

Jen: Yeah. How, I saw there’s so many initials on your to-do list. How many, do you have a limit to how many people you can like physically take on at once?

Vicky: I haven’t limited it before, but this year is my first year where I’m like, Vicki, let’s limit. Because there were a couple of occasions where I had literally last year, like five on the same day, and it was…

Jen: Oh gosh.

Vicky: Actually really intense, because I don’t have to be there on the day. I think, oh, I can just stagger it out and do it all before. Yeah, no, didn’t happen basically. So I did 45 weddings last year where they booked me.

Jen: Oh wow.

Vicky: And I do other work for other people like stylists and things where they just use me for smaller orders, like place cards and stuff. It’s probably nearer a hundred that I provided something for, but 45 where it’s like me dealing with the couple. And I just think, no, that’s not happening this year. In the summer, if it’s a sunny evening, I wanna go out with my dogs or I wanna go to the pub with my husband. I don’t wanna be sitting at home writing stuff all day. As much as I love them, this year is my year for saying, okay, no, that’s enough for now. I’ll pass on that one. Thank you. And have a bit of a life as well.

Jen: That sounds excellent. Very reasonable. Yeah. Balance and filling up your own cup is very important, especially for creativity.

Vicky: Maybe you should call me in August and ask me how that’s going, Jen?

Jen: Okay. Yes. I can be your accountability buddy for self-care. For sure. Well, obviously now we just talked about your job now has a lot of admin, but in your career of weddings, hotels, all of that stuff, it seemed like it was like basically a hundred percent admin. And now there’s a lot more creativity. What, how does that transition feel for you in terms of like enjoyment, stress, everything like that?

Vicky: I love it. Sometimes if you have to be creative, you’ve gotta be in the mood for certain things. I struggle sometime with that for sure, because as much as it’s on my to-do list, a deadline is great for me. If there’s something that I just don’t feel like I can get into, that’s kind of not really me, but I’ve kind of taken it on, or it’s really stressful that, like last year I specifically remember I was given this bible, like a historical, it was really old. Don’t ask me how old, but it was like really old because this couple, this family had a flood at home and all of their bible, which they cherished was damaged. But amazingly they had photographs of the Bible where their previous family members had handwritten beautifully, like all of the family marriages, births, deaths. It was incredible. And I had to recreate that. And of course that’s the kind of thing I’m like, yeah, of course I can do it. I really had to be like in the mood and in the zone and kind of like really clear my desk. Some things I really have to not be in a rush for, because the minute you think, oh, I like a deadline. But then if you’re under the stress of the deadline, then you could go wrong. So you need the happy medium. So as much as I try and actually put work into my calendar, sometimes I’m like, oh, I just don’t feel like doing that today.

Jen: Yes. That I completely understand. That is absolutely how creativity feels for me. Wait, so did you need to recreate it like in the same font as what the previous handwriting was? How often do you get, because that is a totally different order than like, we like Vicki’s style, do your thing. You know, to be like, you must mimic this. That’s so intense.

Vicky: Actually, to be honest, that comes up a lot. People are like, hey, we’ve seen this online. Can you, we really like this, but can you do it? And I’m like, why don’t you contact that person that did it and then you are gonna get that? You know? But I get it. People want to use, like, clearly it might have been an American calligrapher and if they’re a UK based couple then fair enough. I always kind of go, that’s great. I’m really glad you like all of this stuff that’s not mine and you’ve come to me, so what of my stuff do you like? So… There are certain brands, for example, that you have to, they give you an alphabet and you are expected to stick almost with it. I’m quite lucky that I can adapt my lettering.

Jen: Where do you get your inspiration or how much time do you spend looking at other people’s work?

Vicky: I spend far too much time looking at other people’s work, and that has been a very recent conscious effort to say, right, stop with the scrolling. Just instead of scrolling, you just enjoy creating. So that’s what I’m really trying to do now. Just stuff that feels me, that I want to do. It’s lovely to have inspiration, but I never want to feel like I’m copying somebody.

Jen: Yeah. Unless you’re deliberately asked to.

Vicky: Yeah, exactly.

Jen: What do you do to keep yourself entertained or in the flow when you’re doing like a big batch of stuff at home? Or do you listen to audio books, music, podcasts, have a movie on?

Vicky: I started listening to podcasts and then I realized that I have some kind of ability, and this is from back in the hotel days, to completely switch off what’s around me and just focus on what I’m doing. So I was, podcasts were great, but then I was like, I haven’t heard a word that they said. So at the moment I listen to a lot of like nineties dance music, which totally…

Jen: Keeps the energy flowing.

Vicky: Yeah, exactly. If I have to do like accounts or quotes, I have to have something like Classic FM or instrumental chill out music because I was like, I can’t deal, like as much as I can obviously switch off if I really need to concentrate. Sometimes just a bit of background or just quiet is perfect for me. I guess it depends what mood I’m in.

Jen: Alright, I wanna get into your actual to-do list you sent me. Okay. So I love the category heading “random stuff to remember.” That’s a great heading. First up you have ES design. What is that?

Vicky: So specifically for you just because of data protection and all of that good stuff, I have tweaked what it is so that I’m not giving out any names. But it’s just a design that I need to do for that person, which is kind of a nice to do. And that is something that I have honestly put off. And that’s why it’s at the top of the list because I see it and I’m like, yeah, yeah. Need to do that next.

Jen: All right. Next you have “focus on maps.” What’s that?

Vicky: I really like creating map murals. And I think that it’s a really cool way for deli shops to literally put themselves and their suppliers on the map. So I’ve done a couple of them, but I haven’t really shouted about it. And because I’ve done a couple of them, I’d like to push that idea. So a conscious decision sometime last year was to split out my Instagram into Inviting Writing UK and Signs by Vicki, because I felt like I was already being a bit confusing with my messaging. Like weddings, corporate events, engraving, signage. So Signs by Vicki is a portfolio kind of, you know, I’m not rebranding. I don’t have a second business. Yeah, maps is something I love to do and so impactful. I’d really love to have some more people who want maps on their walls.

Jen: Are you ever doing outreach to businesses that you think could use signage or is everybody pretty much coming to you?

Vicky: Never outreach, which is really bad.

Jen: Oh, it’s so impressive. You have more work than you can handle and you never do outreach. That’s the dream.

Vicky: I will never do outreach for signage. I have done it for things like the onsite events. I have approached people for that for sure. But for signage, no, luckily not. And the lovely thing about signage is that most of the time people want to come back, which is repeat business, which is the dream basically. Friends of mine have said, hey, Vicki, this pub, this cafe really need your help. Their signs are awful. And I’m like, yeah, I don’t think that’s the best kind of entry. Hi, your signs are rubbish. Can I help you? Please?

Jen: That does work in America. But yes, your country’s much more polite. That was definitely a tactic I used. Your signs look horrible. They could look like this. Gimme money.

Vicky: I know, right? And I get it. Sometimes I’m really impressed with signage that people can make. And then other times I look, I walk past, I’m like, oh no.

Jen: Yes, absolutely. Yeah.

Vicky: Because it’s attracting people to read the sign. It just looks horrendous.

Jen: I don’t know that it’s attracting the average person. I think it’s people who are, you know, like artists definitely notice the ugly stuff much more than the average person.

Vicky: For sure. For sure. So yeah, I, that could be something else. But don’t add more to my to-do list, please, Jen. Thank you. Outreach for signage clients.

Jen: All right. Next, you have “send out new brochure to remaining people.” What does that mean?

Vicky: So that was an outreach actually. So I had a snazzy little brochure specifically aimed at people who would like personalization and onsite events. Big brands who are doing product launches or shops who might want me in their shop to personalize on a special occasion, that kind of thing. So I had a snazzy little brochure printed. I just sent it randomly to some people who I have followed for ages, to put it in their hands and say, hey, what do you think to this? As it always feels for me, that’s really uncomfortable. I hate doing it. Somebody actually likened it to sending a naked photo of yourself. That’s the kind of ick that I feel when I’m sending something just totally randomly to people. I need to put my big girl pants on and actually continue with that list and get it done.

Jen: Well, way to go being brave. I think you’re saving them from something ugly or you’re giving the gift of something beautiful and like something that could make their brand or event so much more powerful. So even though it feels icky to you, the real perspective is that you’re doing a generous act by sharing your amazing skills with them. So keep that in mind.

Vicky: Thank you. I need to have that snippet and play it out to myself.

Jen: Or you can letter it as an inspirational quote. Alright, next you have “Floris tags.” What’s that?

Vicky: Oh, a job that really needs doing. It’s a friend of mine who has a styling business and she would like some tags and she asked me for them ages ago and I was like, hey, how urgent is this? And she’s like, not really. I was like, great. Here, wedding season kind of really kicks off April, May. So I earmarked it in my head for them. But yeah, I need to have a conversation with her to find out when that actually is and not just make up the deadline in my mind.

Jen: So the whole “random stuff to remember” category is mostly like it needs doing, but not immediately.

Vicky: Basically. Yeah.

Jen: Then you have “order more large ink bottles.” That one’s pretty self-explanatory. “Referral congratulations card for newly engaged with discount code.” What’s going on there?

Vicky: I don’t really know if you want the honest answer. I would really love for previous couples to shout about me, basically to refer me because I guess that out of the 60, 80, a hundred people at their wedding, there’s bound to be other people at that wedding who are going to be getting married at some point in the future. It makes me cringe if people have like “by Inviting Writing UK” on the bottom of every place card or something. It’s just not for me. So I would really love for couples to refer me. But I just feel like it’s a bit too much to say, hey, refer me. Thanks. I’d love to give, you know, something to encourage that and also to encourage that there are certain people who will be like, hey, we got married now. We want thank you cards. Amazing. Or hey, we got married a year ago. Now it’s our paper anniversary because it’s one year. Could you write our vows out for us? Amazing. Yes, yes, that would be great. But first of all, I need to plant that seed of thought as well. Like, hey, it’s your one year anniversary coming up. What do you want? This. Which I don’t do. But the referral thing, because I’m very conscious that a wedding typically is a one-off. And then they come into your life for one to 18 months. And then they’re gone. And I’d love for them to do some kind of repeat business because they know they can trust me by then. And if they could refer me…

Jen: Do you have like a CRM or some other way that you are managing all of your… Okay, yeah. I’m sure that would be very useful for it to like just be on autopilot or you’re not have to consciously think about like, oh, I better recommend myself. I better recommend myself again. But for it to just be a sequence of, you know, they got married on this date, so whatever, nine months later they get the thing, hey, this is a great idea for your one year anniversary, and then so on and so forth.

Vicky: Totally. I’ve really…

Jen: But that is another thing I’m adding to your to-do list.

Vicky: No. It is something that I’ve thought about getting a CRM. For me, the thing that puts me off CRMs is that I’m not really a one size fits all kind of person. So for some, you know, there’s loads of different products that I do, and I just find the idea of setting up a CRM is probably gonna take me a week and a half.

Jen: Yeah. At least.

Vicky: And I don’t, like, I hate automated things. I really, they make me cringe. So I’d rather have something that popped up to say, hey, Vicki, send this email if it’s appropriate. Because you know, sometimes it’s really not appropriate to send that, hey, because you may have heard some news. So yeah, automations kind of freak me out a little bit. And I like that personal touch. So…

Jen: I mean, that is the essence of your whole business is the personal touch. So yeah, that makes sense. Very reasonable.

Vicky: Yeah. So it’s a trap for me, but I could be better at following up a hundred percent. Maybe following up should be on my list.

Jen: Well, that’s literally the next category on your list is follow ups, but wait, okay, let’s get, we’ll get there in a second. Just a few more here. All right. We got “categories on the blog.”

Vicky: I need to work out how to do it, and I’m sure it’s very simple, but then I just think, oh, when I get to know how to do categories, then I’ve got to actually assign a category to every single blog post. And there’s actually quite a few. So then I’m like, that sounds like it’s gonna be about an hour or two of my life, which I’d rather be painting at the moment, so we’ll just leave it on the to-do list. If people come to my blog, there’s actually quite a lot on there. I think that it might be a bit overwhelming and like, I’d like to talk about signage and I’d like to talk about at an event and I’d like to talk about weddings and I’d like to talk about tips that I can give out for weddings and stuff. But I think if you went in wanting any of those things and then saw all the rest, you’d be like, yeah, this isn’t for me because there’s too much information. Categories on the blog is definitely something I would like to do, but it’s a kind of nice to do, I guess.

Jen: All right. Then you have “add designs to Cricket, Thoughtful, and Tea Public.” Is this, so do you already have a like a merchant profile on these platforms or…

Vicky: Tea Public is now live and available to anybody.

Jen: Nice.

Vicky: There’s only like five designs on there and it was a bit of a, you know what, I’m just gonna see how this is, but I might just make a few more things to go on it, but at least I have a presence now on there. So that is live. Hooray. Go and purchase a little bag or a little magnet or something would be really nice. They have lots of things actually, which you can have my stuff onto, which is really cool. Thoughtful, right? So Thoughtful. I uploaded a load of designs to maybe two years ago and I got the response back that thank you so much for uploading your designs. They’re not really for us, but if you want, here’s the link. For anybody who, it won’t be linked on our page, but if you wanted to send it to other people, we’ll of course make the designs if that you’ve made if you promote them, but we are not gonna promote them kind of thing. So I was like, and so that was a bit of a, oh, that’s not good. And then I just never thought about it again. But I’ve come up with a couple of designs that I think would be a bit different and not that I’ve seen before. So I’m gonna try and upload them. So that again, just needs to be me going, oh, you know, what have you got to lose? Kind of thing. But I also need to tweak the designs as well, so more things to do.

Jen: Yeah, you got a lot. Alright, we’ll go to the category of follow-ups. So is this all like wedding couples or is it every type of client under follow-ups?

Vicky: All wedding clients. So they’ve all had a quote from me and now this is, right, I need to follow up because that is something that I have not done before and I feel like I have probably missed out quite a bit. Because I don’t have a CRM and I haven’t been that organized before, I’ve just kind of sent off a quote and done it on a hope and a prayer that they’ll come back to me. Luckily, most people have, but I’m sure that there are lots that I have not followed up on, which potentially may have gone ahead if I’d have paid them some attention. So learning from that, this type of to-do list that you are looking at is literally the first thing that’s ever worked for me in terms of to-do lists that I actually stick to. It literally came about, I don’t know, summer last year, I think it was when I was so sort of drowning in everything, being in my head, and I just thought, right, I’m gonna just get it into a document and have it as a tick box. I really like the little tick box because you can kind of tick to say it’s done, but then it’s still there. So you then know to follow up as an example. If I’ve done it and I don’t need to think about it again, delete, basically. That’s really worked for me. So these people have all had a quote and I just need to go, hey, how’s it going? Remember me? What did you think? Would you like to…

Jen: Excellent idea. Are you saying when you were a hotel manager and wedding coordination, you didn’t have a to-do list?

Vicky: I did. I did, but it was handwritten one and it would…

Jen: Oh, okay.

Vicky: …crossed off and I’d then find it a nightmare because there was so much crossing off. I’d just be like, okay, I can’t see the wood for the trees because there’s so much on here, but a lot of it’s crossed off and then you’d have to write it again. And that’s typically what I’ve done. I’ve always had like a paper to-do list, so it’s literally right there and then, but you are wasting your time because you write it all out again. This way I can kind of move stuff around if I need to, and it’s literally live. And also I can get it when I’m on the go. I don’t have to be like, oh, my piece of paper’s at home, but now I’ve got something to add to it.

Jen: Yeah. Is this like a Google doc?

Vicky: It literally is a Google doc. I’ve tried, I really like Trello for certain things, but the Google Docs is the to-do list that works for me. That and calendar.

Jen: You…

Vicky: I have to put stuff in my calendar to block stuff out.

Jen: Yes. You’re the first artist I’ve interviewed and this is exactly what my to-do list looks like. I use a Google doc, I use the check boxes. I have categories that are like, that nobody else would understand, and I use calendar. I’m wondering if we have a special artist brain. It’s a very unattractive to-do list, honestly. Mine looks exactly the same. So it’s very funny, like people who are so drawn to design and beauty, but like to do this part of our brain where like it has to be so basic. Just little check boxes.

Vicky: Yeah.

Vicky: I highlight stuff that really needs doing. Yeah.

Jen: Nice. All right. Then you have, I’m guessing these are wedding clients that are in the works, so you have invitations for a couple and then initial draft crossed off.

Vicky: So they’re all the invitation designs that I’m currently making for people. So they’ve had their initial drafts and I’m just waiting to hear back from them or waiting for them to settle their balance so that they can go off to print. All of that kind of stuff. Yeah. I’ve kind of separated them out because they’re, I’m actually working on them rather than the follow-ups are the people who, like, may go ahead, they may not. So…

Jen: Yeah. What type of things do you have that don’t ever make it to the to-do list, but like, you know, you’re going to do every day? Whether that’s something like walk your dogs or something that makes you balanced and able to do all of the things that you’re doing.

Vicky: The thing that should be happening, although it hasn’t really happened, is I’m trying to go to the gym Monday, Wednesday, Friday. So that normally happens in the morning. I feel like if I don’t do it first thing in the morning, it just doesn’t get done. But then I feel like each time I’ve gone to the gym, I’ve come back with some kind of issue, like my back or whatever. So that’s gone out the window a little bit. The number one thing that happens basically every day is walking my dog. It happens. That doesn’t have to be on the to-do list. I really try and not do too much in the evening. I try and watch a bit of TV or do a bit of doodling. I’m starting to read, which is something that I’ve never done apart from on holiday. That is something that I’m really trying to do every day. So I’m reading, which is really good. Actually really enjoying that. Just a few pages.

Jen: It sounds like the theme of your year is definitely like a lot more self love.

Vicky: A hundred percent. A hundred percent. Last year was difficult. Yeah, I had a few stressful moments. So this year I’m really trying to find that balance and enjoy… I love my job so much and I just don’t want to be in the point where I’m like, let’s go back to being employed, because I just think it’s not for me. I love working for myself, but sometimes, you know, and then people say, well, you’ve done it to yourself. And I’m like, yeah, you’re absolutely right.

Jen: Cultivating balance takes deliberate effort and sometimes to-do lists of like, half an hour for myself. Yeah, it’s all that stuff. It’s not…

Vicky: I just keep thinking about the stuff that I should be doing. Like I remember specifically last year, there’s a really good spa here. And it’s 10 minutes away. And I literally rang them on the Wednesday and I was there on the Thursday. I was like, I need to chill. And the whole time I was there, so I was on my iPad for the first like couple of hours of the day. And then the rest of the day I was just like, what should I be doing right now? And it just, yeah, it didn’t work for me. It didn’t work for me at all. I need to kind of go for a walk or do something like the painting.

Jen: Build up to relaxation.

Vicky: A hundred percent. Yeah, definitely.

Jen: Yeah. All right. Final question. If you could see anybody’s to-do list, whether that be a specific person or like a job title, whose to-do list would you most like to see?

Vicky: Oh my goodness. Wow. Okay. That’s a great question. All that is literally springing to mind is like other calligraphers, to see what they get up to on a day-to-day basis. So I think that would be really, really interesting. It blows my mind how the Prime Minister ever sleeps.

Jen: Yeah.

Vicky: Seriously. And you know, I feel like I’ve got a stressful job that I can’t sleep at night sometimes. And I just think, how do these people sleep? Like literally, I think they must have a team of people behind them to be like, you need to do this, you need to do that. Whereas I don’t have that. But equally, like surely they must have the mother of all to-do lists. Save the country.

Jen: So calligraphers and the Prime Minister, but yes, I would like to see those to-do lists as well.

Vicky: I guess I should say like Dua Lipa or something like that. I’ve recently watched Taylor Swift’s series and I just think, wow, that’s so cool, that their to-do list is like, write really great songs, perform them. There’ll be other stuff as well.

Jen: I haven’t watched the docuseries, but I’ve seen a couple of her interviews and it’s very impressive that like, when she’s off, she’s so off. Like all she’s doing is like baking bread and like sewing. I’m like, how? How? That’s amazing that you can just go from being the most on person ever to the most off person ever. It’s very admirable.

Vicky: It’s very impressive. I would love to have that more on my to-do list, being entirely gone. Me in a cabin in the woods painting. Oh my goodness. That sounds literally like a dream.

Jen: Well now you have an idea for your next holiday.

Vicky: Absolutely.

Jen: Well, thank you so much for doing this. It was so wonderful chatting with you. I feel like we’re kindred spirits.

Vicky: Thank you, Jen. That’s so nice. So kind of you to ask me to come on.

Jen: Thank you. Is there anything else you would like to share?

Vicky: I don’t think so. I think you’ve given me some food for thought and…

Jen: I’ve given you too many to-do list items.

Vicky: Absolutely. I need to go and add a few more. No, it’s been fun to run through it. So thank you.

Jen: Well have a great class tonight and thank you again so much for chatting with me.

Vicky: Thank you so much, Jen. I really appreciate it as well. Have a great rest of your day.

Jen: Thank you. You too. Bye.